Original Sin? What? Where?

I have heard many people talk of ‘Original Sin’ and make the claim that we are all ‘doomed’ and nothing but sinners as a result of it. That we can do nothing to overcome that fact as God Himself has ordained it and it is described in the Holy Scriptures of both Judaism and Christianity (and Islam too – i am not sure?)

So i was quite amazed by what i have just read in Genesis – perhaps some may like to add their thoughts?

Just a quick recap first though – the Original Sin referred to was that of the First Man – Adam – when he ‘chose’ to listen to His Wife, Eve (who listened to a talking snake/Serpent) over the Word (Command) of God to NOT eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden of Eden (Paradise).

As a direct result of this Adam (and one would assume Eve too) ‘died’ – spiritually it seems – since Adam actually lived some 930 years before he ended his days outside of the Garden and the ground (earth) was cursed for Adam’s sake.  God also Cursed the Serpent, as well as both Adam and Eve, whom He had previously blessed. Adam and Eve were allowed to go forth and multiply and replenish the Earth. (In sorrow and suffering for THEIR sin).

All on the same page now? Good.

Seeing as how we are all supposed to be directly descended form the First Man and Woman we are said to have ‘inherited’ their Sin as our own – that we are all sinners because of Adam.

Heard that before? i suspected you might.

I wonder how many of you paid a little Bit more attention to what Genesis goes on to say after the sinning/cursing part??

Specifically:

“1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.” (Gen 6:1-9)

“11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”  (Gen 6:11-13)

“17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.”  (Genesis 6:17-22)

“20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.”  (Genesis 8:20-22)

Points i think are worth paying attention to:

The Sons of GOD took wives of the women of the earth (Adam) – Presumably they also bore children.

“My Spirit will not always strive with man – for that he is also flesh”.

And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (God Repents!)

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.

I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

and lastly and most importantly:

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

We are the ‘sons and daughters’ of Adam THROUGH NOAH – who was Perfect, as were his generations (descendents).

What Original Sin? God repented and wiped it from the face of His Earth (Mark II – post flood). How did we ‘miss’ that??

Our sin is ours and ours alone – it comes from the imaginations of our hearts in our YOUTH. (Genesis 8:21)

By choosing to live in Spirit and following Christ we can overcome them – here. To believe otherwise is, in my eyes, denying all that Christ promised. Denying Him.

It is however a far from easy, simple or continuable thing. It requires us to do more than we are able to fully understand and requires His Grace also.

it is something we must learn to carry with us in each and every instant – but i believe it IS attainable when we work with God and not against Him.

That can be very much harder for some than others and i feel is almost always not as easy to maintain as many pretend it is.

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8 thoughts on “Original Sin? What? Where?

  1. Hey Love!:) In essence I agree with you, that we are living under a curse, while we shouldn’t be because we are justified [in Christ]. But I am missing something here, if we are justified through Noah, then why did Jesus die for our sins?

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  2. My question is the same as Rain’s.

    For what/which sin did Jesus sacrifice his life for.

    Interesting story in scripture about Noah. All this guys in the OT lived for hundreds of years. What happened to that Tree of Life? 🙂

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  3. Rain – while i always hope we agree on the things that are important in our search for God, my point was that we WERE cursed, However God Repeneted of that and destroyed ALL that was cursed in the Flood and started again with Noah who He Blessed, was perfect ( Blameless – free of sin) and walked with God. He also caused a new Earth to come forth after the flod washed away the old one that had been cursed of God and God made a NEW covenant with Noah and His Family and the creatures of the earth and the herb and seed of the new land so that the curse we were subject to under Adam’s Sin no longer applied to anyone after Noah.

    What happened though was God realised man had knowledge of evil in his imaginations of his heart from his youth and we now basically sin whenever we trun from God and follow our own free will contrary to His.

    But we clearly are not subject to the curse God put on adam but are responsible for our selves and our imaginations of the heart from our youth.

    Why did Jesus die for OUR sins, the sins of the world?
    He who was blameless took on the Sin of the world and paid for it with His Blood to satisfy the ‘needs’ of the Jewish people who believed a blood sacrifice was necessary to put things tight between them and God.

    Also to fulfill the Law and The Prophets. Also to show everyone who followed Him The Way to God and to overcome Death… and many more reasons besides.

    But surely you already know these things?? 🙂

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  4. Ed – as above, but i don’t see Jesus upon the cross for a ‘single’ generic ‘Sin’ and definitely not to ‘free us from the Sin of Adam since still today we live only as long as God chose as a maximum – 120 years. Then our body ‘dies’ and returns to the dust of which we are made.

    I get all my answers wherever possible from the Bible.

    The tree of life was in the middle of the garden of Eden ( on the opposite side of a river to the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil) which God has set ‘guards’ to watch over to prevent anyone getting back in and eating of that Tree. (Gen 2)

    SO we don’t any longer have the chance to taste of That Tree’s fruit other than in a figurative sense – we would eat of the fruits of the Spirit and that allows us to live forever, providing we sin no longer in spiritual form. 🙂

    The guys in the OT had a much closer physical and spiritual connection to God than we do today – the Genealogy of Adam listed in Genesis clearly shows a decline in longevity over 10 or 15 generations as man became further ‘removed’ from God and Eden. (Gen 5)

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  5. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.” (Gen 6:1-9)

    How perfect could Noah have been?

    Based on what I have learned so far I would not think that Noah, being of the flesh, could be perfect in the why that Jesus was perfect. Could he have been the perfect servent of God in that he completely surrendered his will to God, but still be less than perfect in how he lived his life, how he interacted with his family and neighbors?

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  6. “How perfect could Noah have been? ”

    How blue is blue?

    I generally don’t ask the latter question when i read in a book that the shirt was blue – i just accept it was a blue-coloured shirt.

    In reading the Bible i try where possible to not take any single line in and of itself but look for other things that either support or deny what i understand the line to mean. In this case Deb has provided her suggestion for one word in the snetence and as a result i found a contrary (actually a ‘different’) one in another source of what the actual Hebrew word meant, which i showed in your post comments.

    Here is yet another line that i believed shows the actual ‘intent’ of this one line – also from the same Chapter in Genesis:
    8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD .
    Some versions say God blessed Noah – and God blessed Adam in Eden but then also cursed him afterwards.

    This is once again stated in Genesis 9:

    1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
    2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

    and later:

    8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
    9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
    10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
    11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

    So as i am reading the bible ( KJV) and as you are quite free to check for yourself should you choose – i believe the Bible when it says Noah was Perfect, and Blessed by God after Adam’s curse had been lifted and wiped clean.

    29 And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.

    Like Adam, and every man and woman since, Noah’s Physical body died. i believe He walks with God in heaven still because he was able to follow God’s Will and was blessed by God Himself while his physical body was yet alive.

    Was he human and therefore subject to corruption and physical death – certainly. Could he learn to follow ONLY God’s will and so be ‘perfect’ in spirit while his body also lived – i’m going to say ‘yes’ and see if any can prove (as opposed to believing) otherwise. 🙂

    Was he like Jesus and Adam and physically BORN of God and the Earth (Mary) – no.

    But what would you think Jesus meant when He says ‘i am the way’ – do you think He means we should all be like Him and have God as our physical as well as Spiritual Father (which also makes Him his own Spiritual Father?? Since The Son is also God?)

    WE don’t understand everything ‘perfectly’ just yet – some things are still beyond our level of understanding – both in Science and in Religion.

    i try to accept what i can make sense of in the Bible and not deny it simply because i don’t fully know everything just yet.

    Just as you accept what you can from Science and man’s understanding even though you don’t yet know nor can understand ‘everything’ – just yet! 🙂

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  7. Hi there, I came across your blog as I was browsing through the blogactionday website, and this post caught my eye.

    “I have heard many people talk of ‘Original Sin’ and make the claim that we are all ‘doomed’ and nothing but sinners as a result of it. That we can do nothing to overcome that fact as God Himself has ordained it and it is described in the Holy Scriptures of both Judaism and Christianity (and Islam too – i am not sure?)”

    Being a convert to Islam, a Muslim for several years now.. I thought I would just fill you in about Muslims beliefs on Original sin. Here are a few passages from the Quran that will clarify it:

    ‘And We said, “O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundace from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers.’ [Quran 2:35]

    ‘ But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them form that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, “Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time.’ [Quran 2:36]

    ‘ Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.’ [Quran 2:37]

    Basically Adam and Eve ate from the tree after being tricked by Satan (who may or may not of come to them in the form of a serpent- not sure since this detail is not mentioned in our book) But the main difference here is God taught them the words of repentence, and once they repented they were forgiven and it ends there. Each person will be held responsible for his own sins and forgiven for his own sins should he seek repentance from God.

    ‘That no burdened person (with sins) shall bear the burden (sins) of another.’ [Quran 53:38]

    Adam, Noah, and Jesus are all very respected prophets of God, amongst others, and their stories are mentioned in the Quran, and Muslims hold equal regard for them all. I invite you to read an english translation of the Quran, google search free Quran and you can get one sent to your doorstep for free, you’ve got nothing to lose.

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  8. Eva – Hi and welcome. 🙂

    i am grateful to you for your assistance in increasing my knowledge of the Qu’ran, especially as it pertains to Adam, Eve and ‘Original’ Sin.

    i like to find the similarities between various religions and their Holy Scriptures and value them above the differences that some extremists believe somehow justifies thier extremeist views and acts.

    You have clearly shown a number of similarities between Islam’s Holy Book and that of Christians. 🙂

    We cannot totally ignore the apparent differences though and it is worth further investigation to try and understand what is the whole Truth.

    The Bible states in Genesis that God cursed the ground also for Adam’s sake, again i am unsure if the Qu’ran mentions this.

    Later though, after the Great Flood ( Qu’ran references?) God Repents of this and blesses the ground again that has been made anew for Noah and his generations to walk upon and go forth and mutiply and replenish the entire earth. ( Genesis Chs 8,9)

    The Qu’ran and the Bible are again in agreement over ‘our’ sins being our own and that we not inherit sin from our fathers ( Ezekiel Ch 18) unless we so choose to follow our fathers into sin and not God towards righteousness.

    i wonder about Adam and Noah being considered ‘prophets’ since although their stories are told in both Scriptures i don’t believe any direct quotes of theirs have been recorded and passed down?

    While both Moses and Mohammed (pbuh) can be considered as a prophet of God as they have brought His words to the people do Adam and Noah deserve this title rather than being people favoured of God?

    Again – thank you for taking the time to comment and i hope you may visit again.

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