What’s the Definition of Insanity??

Americans usually buy about 7 billion rounds of ammunition a year, according to the National Rifle Association. In the past year, that figure has jumped to about 9 billion rounds, said NRA spokeswoman Vickie Cieplak.

Quote from: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090923/ap_on_re_us/us_ammo_shortage) 23/09/09

Excuse me?

Seven BILLION rounds per year??

So every single year (a ‘normal’ year that is, not one when people are stocking up  fearing Obama will introduce tighter gun control laws) – but every single year Americans purchase enough ammunition to kill every man, woman and child in the Entire World?? (6.6 billion as of 2007 – Including themselves of course). 😯

Not only that but they’d have enough left over to kill a reasonably sized deer, elk or bear for every single man, woman and child in the US, every year ( 300 million plus animals dead – per year).

And not only that but they would STILL have enough bullets left over (100,000,000 bullets) that if one round was fired every single second of the day, at a paper target,  they would need to keep on firing for 3 years and 2 months before just one year’s worth of ‘spare’ ammunition (the amount left over after killing everyone on the planet and an animal for every US citizen a year**) bought in the US was used up??

Seven Thousand Million Rounds… each year…

i’m pretty sure i just answered my own question.

.

** of course this was assuming people only use one bullet to kill a person or a thing when in fact, often, several are used/’needed’ to do this. We live in seriously strange times, times when i am perfectly sure the world as i know it has indeed gone insane.

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58 thoughts on “What’s the Definition of Insanity??

  1. We definitely need some type of reform here. Canada has some serious gun issues as well. It is a north american thing 🙂

    The problem with the reform they are proposing is a joke. It would take the guns away from honest people protecting their homes. The criminals would still have access to illegal weapons from across the borders and would have an advantage.

    I think what needs to be done, and I am no expert on this, is that there needs to be a gun control piece brought into the US, Canada and Mexico that is consistent and enforced. Enforced will be the trick with Mexico since nothing is enforced there and there is so much corruption.

    This is a tough one though. There are some things that need to be done, how to get them done is another topic.

    I can promise you Obama won’t do it. He is quickly becoming a joke.

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  2. Rain – hahahahaha(sob) – i’m not sure whether to laugh – or cry?

    It’s a good thing for us and the planet that they must be really lousy shots! 😉

    J – given the number of your fellow citizens being murdered by gun-owners each year i do agree some reform is badly needed – and i believe it needs to start with your Constitution.

    It’s like you guys are proud of staying ‘captive’ to legislation that was made over 200 years ago when the world was a far different place and much of your country was considered ‘wild’.

    In case some of you have not noticed this is the 21st century and modern man does not actually consider that protecting themselves from criminals or the King of England or ‘indians’ is something they are supposed or required to do but is what they pay the Police and Armed forces to do for them. ( only these groups and criminals should be carrying weapons or having them in their homes in a modern civilised urban society.

    Also i have recently seen Mexican policemen dying in large numbers in gun-battles with drug runners, trying to enforce the US laws concerning Drugs that find their way from Mexico to the US.

    Why is it that America has over 150,000 troops in a country that has never done anything to the US but offer an asylum to a Saudi Arabian ‘hero’ of Islamic Fundamentalism while it has virtually no-one covering the 1000 miles of Mexican Boarder with the US which could provide a far more effective ‘defence’ of your nation

    In more than 8 years and in two different nations America has achieved what exactly with it’s overseas Army?

    Some 4000 dead Americans? Far more dead civillians and a change of regime in one country of 25 million people.

    That does not sound like a good way to spend my trillions of tax dollars to me.

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  3. I agree with you that our murder rate would go down if it was illegal for private citizens to own guns.

    The thing to remember is that the 2nd Amendment, protecting the right to bear arms, was added our constitution so that the state militias would always be strong enough restrict the power of the national government.

    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”

    This lack of trust in the national government is still strong in many parts of the country. The strongest gun control laws are in the big cities, especially the eastern states. The rest of the country has a long tradition of gun ownership, they value greatly.

    Also newspaper headlines leave the impression that our streets are not safe, even when our crime statistics prove otherwise.

    Amending the Constitution to make gun ownership illegal would take approval of 2/3 of the states. That will not happen anytime soon. The tradition of gun ownership is very strong in too many families.

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  4. I am a proud gun owner and I am MORE than happy to have the right to a fire arm in my home. I am a stay at home mom and I am the only person that stays at home on my block. I was targeted by a sexual predator in our neighbor that spotted me while I was taking my dog out for a crap. He was coming after me. No one would have heard my screams. I called 911, loaded my gun and waited for who ever would show up first. The police took over thirty minutes to get to my home. They couldn’t find the man when they arrived that day, but they did pick him up the next day around the corner as he was masturbating infront of a woman’s home. The police informed me that he had a rap sheet a mile long and would definately raped me. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. You never hear anyone griping about knives or any other items that have the capability being used as weapons. How about the tongue? The tongue has killed more people then any weapon on earth.

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  5. Hi Raging.

    i think you said everything you needed to say in your first four words

    Your Christ must be so proud of you.

    As for knives – take a good look at the UK. The US is slowly exporting it’s love of guns over there to replace the far less cowardly, but every bit as illegal, use of knives by criminals.

    As impossible as it is to believe, the people of the UK and my country have almost identical crime statistics to your country with a singular exception – the number of gun murders per 100,000 of population is over double the rate in the US. Your ‘home’ guns don’t stop the number of sex crimes, assaults, violent home invasions or armed robberies but merely increase the numbers of innocent people murdered. And supposedly sane people still try to justify their use in a big city or town. The facts above speak for themselves. i do not know of a single fact the gun lobbyists can put forward that would make the mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers and children of the 10000 citizens the US murders every single year with guns feel that their relatives’ life was worth it.

    As for the poor tongue – it can do absolutely nothing that the Heart and Mind don’t first tell it to do. Put the blame where it truly belongs, not on a scapegoat.

    As Confucius would have said if he’d thought of it: “Worst thing man with vicious tongue can do is give you a tongue-lashing. Man with vicious tongue and a gun can blow your brains out.

    Enjoy your life.

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  6. I shared my opinion, and a painfull experience and you have the audacity to lecture me about what Christ is proud of in my life? If this is the “love will bring us together” that you know, I don’t want any of it. You know nothing about me, or how many people I have led to the kingdom of Heaven or how I am out in the world spreading the gospel everywhere I go.

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  7. Raging – my blog, my rules. trying to justify the insanity of what the post is about might someohow fit into your gospel in your world view – it has NO place in mine, nor i believe does it in His.

    You may have come a very long way in your walk.

    You may try to do His work for Him.

    You clearly have a long way still to go.

    lose the pride, lose the pity me attitude – Fear God not pathetic weak masturbaters, Find Christ.

    led people to the Kingdom of Heaven?? Jesus does that – please don’t claim His Credit!

    you don’t want any of this? i am not surprised. i did not ask you to – it was your choice to offer your ‘opinion’. i do not come to you justifying myself to you at your ‘home’. i have never tried to force any of ‘me’ onto you, you are completely free to choose whatever you so choose.

    Whatever you do choose to see and do however there are most definitely going to be consequences put in place by God – for you and me both.

    Feel free to go in His peace.

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  8. You are not fit to judge me or my relaionship with Christ. I don’t recall coming into your home and if I did I would pull your butt off the couch and drag it to church so that you would actually be challenged to love people when they are at their worst, that is to love as Jesus did. Your response is hardly loving, nor kind in any way, so please, if you want to judge, go look in the mirror.

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  9. Some people joke about the “Bedside Baptists” who attend the “Chapel of the Tube” on Sunday mornings. But it’s more than a joke. Many people refuse to get near a church unless their nephew is playing the role of a sheep in the Christmas pageant! They claim they can get more out of a walk in the woods than from the typical sermon.

    Can a Christian survive apart from a church? Some Christians have no choice. They are trapped in a hospital bed, or working in an isolated area where no church exists. And God is certainly sufficient to care for their needs. You can still get to heaven if you can’t go to church.

    But even though it’s technically possible to live the Christian life in isolation, it’s certainly not the norm.

    When you become a Christian, you are called into a relationship with God (1 Corinthians 1:9). But I John 1:3 makes it clear that we enter a fellowship that goes two ways: with God and with other Christians.

    The New Testament never divides Christians into the church members and the non-church members. All the way through, it assumes that everybody participates in their local assembly. It gives no samples of Christians who belong to the “universal church” but have no link with a local church. One scholar has said that “any idea…of enjoying salvation or being a Christian in isolation is foreign to the New Testament writings” (Alan Stibbs, God’s Church, p. 92). Wherever Christians are within range of each other in the New Testament, they meet. Every time the apostle Paul comes to a town in the book of Acts where there are no Christians, he wins a few converts and immediately organizes them into a small group – a little church.

    Acts 20:7 reveals the practice of the early church: “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached to them.” For Christians in every location, regular gathering was a part of life.

    It’s illogical to say that you are merely part of the worldwide, universal church, yet refuse to gather with the segment of that universal church that exists in your geographical area. It would be like claiming you have a car, when the right fender is in Phoenix, the engine is in Tucson, and the wheels are in Paradise Valley! You don’t have a car; you have the beginning of the inventory for a junkyard. It just won’t function until the pieces are put together.

    The church must be together to carry out many of its purposes.

    Here are some irreplaceable pieces of the Christian that cannot happen when you live in isolation from the church:

    1.USE OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS – I Corinthians 12 makes it clear that God has given spiritual gifts to every Christian. And verse 7 states unmistakably that these abilities are not provided to make you feel good; they are abilities to minister that should be used for the common good! I Peter 4:10 commands us to use spiritual gifts to help each other.

    The same passage makes it clear that we meet with other Christians so they can use their gifts to strengthen us. God’s gift of a preacher or teacher is wasted if no one comes to hear them speak.

    2.MUTUAL MINISTRY – The church is pictured as a body in I Corinthians 12, and Paul explains that each part of the body exists to meet the needs of other body parts. In the same way, God intends each of us to meet the needs of other believers, using our strengths to help in their areas of weakness. I Corinthians 12:21 expresses it this way: “The eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of you.” Neither can a Christian claim to be self-sufficient today.

    The New Testament is full of “one another” commands. We are to comfort one another (I Thessalonians 4:18), build up one another (I Thessalonians 5:11), confess our sins to one another (James 5:16), pray for one another (James 5:16), and many more. How can we obey these directives if we stay away from the gathering of believers?

    3.ACCOUNTABILITY – God designed the church as a place where spiritual leaders could watch out for our welfare, as a shepherd guards the sheep (I Peter 5:1-4; Hebrews 13:17). A Christian who answers only to himself can easily rationalize sinful attitudes or actions; regular contact with other Christians can keep us sharp.

    A single verse should actually be sufficient answer for this question: Hebrews 10:25 warns its readers against “forsaking the assembly of yourselves together, as the manner of some is.”

    Author: Dr. John Bechtle.

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  10. Raging – why would you assume i don’t know how to look in a mirror? My having faults and failures in no way precludes me from seeing those same faults ( and calling them out so as to help someone eliminate them from their being by no longer giving into them without thinking about them and choosing a better behaviour.) and speaking out – exactly the same as you have done – and do.

    i agree – if i want to see people at their worst then going to some churches is the best place to find them.

    just getting back on topic for a second – an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth – while biblical and a legal requirement of God’s Children ( by reason of the hardness of THEIR hearts) is also OLD testament thinking.

    You may recall that Christ’s answer to this in the NEW testament to the gentiles – which i am assuming you are a member of as am i – and Jews alike is that we are to pray for those who would despitefully use us – Christ does NOT say we are to sit there and blow them away with bullets from a .357 now does he?? Christ demanded Peter put down his sword when those in power were about to take Him and would have Him put to death. Those who live by the sword (gun) will die by the sword (gun).

    7 billion rounds of ammunition every single year is madness and i will never back down from that perspective – any human life is sacred and none of us has the sole right to take it away from another with a gun. Criminals commit crime – society is largely responsible for the making of criminals. As members of the society it is up to us to try to prevent people from resorting ( often the last resort) to crime and not joining their ranks by becoming a murderer.

    The days of people shooting it out in our streets and needing a gun to defend ourselves belong in the 1800’s – not the 2000’s. Time we made it illegal to carry or own a gun in a city – like most of the rest of the civilised western world – and begin facing up to what we as individuals allow to happen in our society and do intelligent things to fix it.

    Thank you for sharing and for your ‘concern’.

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  11. Thank you for responding kindly this time.

    Humans will just find another weapon to use.

    When Christian believers gather in churches, everything that can go wrong sooner or later does. Outsiders, on observing this, conclude that there is nothing to the religion business except, perhaps, business- and dishonest business at that. Insiders see it differently. Just as a hospital collects the sick under one roof and labels them as such, the church collects sinners. Many of the people outside the hospital are every bit as sick as the ones inside, but their illnesses are either undiagnosed or disguised. It’s similar with sinners outside the church. So Christian churches are not, as a rule, model communities of good behavior. They are, rather, places where human misbehavior is brought out in the open, faced, and dealt with. The letter of James shows one of the church’s early pastors skillfully going about his work of confronting, diagnosing, and dealing with areas of misbelief and misbehavior that had turned up in congregations committed to his care.

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  12. I did a concordance of the word ‘sword’ and I was pretty blown away by just how many times the word comes up in every single bible translation out there and how it was used. A Christian has the right to defend themselves, shall I purchase a sword? Oh, wait, I have one 🙂 Check it out and study it yourself.

    As far as me asking you to look in the mirror? I really don’t know what you would expect of me when you have what LOVE would do written on both sides of the top of your blog and yet you come at me with “my blog, my rules” which to me implys that you think you can treat me like crap and say the rudest cruelst things in your response. I have been treated with more love from athiests. So yes, I called you out on it.

    And yes I am concerned about any one who thinks they can walk with God without the fellowship of other belivers and yes I do think about you often since we met last year via our blogs and have prayed for you. Since I am a now pregnant and the mother of a 17 month old son, with a busy life, I would ask you to consider that I do have concern for you, do you think I actually have time to correspond like this? NO. However I will take the time to make you think about kingdom building wich is what living on Earth is all about and I’m sorry Mr. Love, but you can’t bring people to Christ and then bring them to your house for the answers and needs that they have. You know I am right, you just don’t like it.

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  13. raging – thank you for sharing what you did in your first comment. that was brave. i do not blame you, or judge you, for feeling how you feel. im sorry you went through all of that. so sorry. ive been a victim of sexual and physical abuse – i cant sit here and say that if i were violated again, raped and beat, and i had a gun in my possession that i wouldnt defend myself. and, way to handle “Love”!!! you stand up for yourself quite well! and i support you fully in this.

    yes, “love” – i do.

    ed – your comment was perfect. thank you for that.

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  14. Luke 22:35-38
    And He said to them, “When I sent you out without purse and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” And they said, “No, nothing.” 36 And He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one. 37 “For I tell you, that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘ And He was numbered with transgressors ‘;for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.”38 And they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”
    NASB

    People always look at guns as the killers of people. Set a gun down on a table and see how many people it kills. It’s not the gun that kills, it’s the person weilding it. All a person would really need is something sharp (even dull if enough force is used). A pen, pencil, nail, even a paper clip if placed properly. People have been killing each other long before the gun was invented. If you really want to take stock, look at the numbers:

    Last year, the pharmaceutical industry did $182 billion in drug sales world wide. In contrast to that figure, it cost approximately $183 billion to treat adverse reactions from all of those drugs. The following admissions were taken from JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association) : The top five causes of death in the United States, in order, are:

    1) Tobacco
    2) Alcohol
    3) Medical malpractice
    4) Traffic accidents
    5) Firearms

    The verse “those who live by the sword will die by the sword”… look at the verse closely and do a concordance study on it. Those who “live by it” meaning, those who solve all their disputes with it…. I own both a gun and a sword and I don’t settle my disputes with them, I will settle a dispute with someone who is threatening to take my life with them. It’s not a sin to defend one’s self, it’s smart to learn to how to defend yourself properly and that doesn’t always mean that there would be a gun involved in that learning process.

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  15. Raging – If you are going to make statements that justify your human position as opposed to His (ie of the Spririt) it is advisable to do some research first or you just end up sounding more like a raging idiot than a raging genius ( trust me on this one – i have some experience in it)

    Just one case in point: ‘Humans will just find another weapon to use.’

    A man can kill another with his bare hands if he has enough insanity and strength. removing all weapons and tools that can be used to kill a man is literally impossible in our large societies.

    This is NOT the point and is a rather pathetic excuse to self-justify gun ownership.

    The POINT is: Countries like Australia and the UK which are to a very large degree identical to the US do NOT have anything like the amount of gumn ownership in homes and yet have almost identical major crime statistics with a SINGULAR exception.

    Rapes, robbery’s, home invasions are all roughly equally common in the US as in the countries i mentioned so clearly owning a gun does nothing to reduce these. the ONLY exception – the ONLY thing owning a gun does – far from making you safer – is make you far more likely to be involved in a gun-related murder. either as victim of your own gun or as a murderer who has shot someone who did not have a similar weapon ( so was not able to defend themselves ‘fairly’ – ‘sword to sword’)

    There is NO excuse for owning a gun in a western society
    it is not necessary, does not reduce crime and only increases the number of murders and murderers. Fear is NO reason to take up arms and expecially not for anyone claiming to be Christian. Committing the greater crime (sin) is no answer to preventing a lesser one.

    A second case involves your comment on churches as: ‘places where human misbehavior is brought out in the open, faced, and dealt with’ i can see that some churches do this – but it is largely the sins of the ‘others’ in the church and hardly ever the sins of those who are in leadership positions – consider the many examples of the Catholic Church who go to great lengths to hide the sins of their church leaders/officials. And there have been a number of spectacular examples in non catholic US churches also ( The Bakers come to mind).

    There is a reason for this. who would go to a person who can’t spell themselves to be taught to spell? who would go to a maths teacher who cannot add up to learn maths? so who would go to a spiritual counsellor who has not been able to prevent themselves from sinning to learn how not to sin?.

    I have no doubt that there will be people who cannot spell trying to get customers for their spelling lessons and maths teachers who do not know maths trying to get customers for their maths lessons and people who know nothing of the Spirit trying to get customers to their church.

    This is the way of the world

    It is a way i want nothing to do with.

    lastly – ‘You know I am right, you just don’t like it.’

    i can’t begin to tell you how sad that is – or how very judgemental – believe me, you know virtually nothing of the real me at all. and i can assure you – as much as you feel i have hurt you in my first comments that was but the merest prick compared to what i could have chosen to write – be thankful i was not feeling vicious or like i wanted to hurt you – even if it would have only been with words and no more physical weapon.

    The ONLY thing i have seen that is ‘right’ come from you is scripture – and i don’t believe you have actually seen what it it saying even now.

    i do not wish or desire to deliberately hurt anyone as this only breeds more and more of the same, and this world has far too much of it already – HOWEVER – it is necessary sometimes that some people be told His Truth because they are so busy replacing it with their own in some part.

    It is that Truth that is what hurts those who believe in Him – or think they do, as well as they are currently able.

    i feel sorry for anyone who believes if Christ lived in the US today he would carry or own a Gun and if we would have Him as our Saviour and as the role model we are to follow in ALL things why we would choose to own one or support one who does confounds me.

    i am extremely sorry for anyone who chooses to believe that their physical body is worth polluting their Soul for by taking the life of another in defence of it.

    I am sorriest for anyone who believes that a ‘country’ is worth the same and they are to lay down their life for ‘it’, or that they are doing it in His Name.

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  16. Tam – your concern for a fellow human sufferer is naturally quite understandable.

    i am sorry though that you allowed such to distract you from the theme of the actual post and that you did not have any thoughts to share on the matter – still at least i got a comment so that is of some comfort 🙂

    “love”

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  17. reading through the comments more this morning and, again, i am so pleased with how raging handled herself and spoke so much truth. and, again, appalled by your responses to her. Bob, your words to her are so demeaning and seem to be coming for an air of superiority. which you do not have, you must know that.

    is telling her that you could have really torn her down if you had felt like it somehow supposed to make your existing comments appear loving or justified.

    i hope i never treat another person like this. yes, i have my problems with people (one most recently posted) but to attack their character and insult their intelligence is just….not LOVE-ing.

    “It is that Truth that is what hurts those who believe in Him – or think they do, as well as they are currently able.”

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  18. Raging: Are you and I related??? I love you already! 🙂 Bob, why is this even an issue. I have every right to pack and protect my family and yes I know how to shoot. If you’re dumb enough to come into my home and think you can harm me, my family or take anything that I have worked hard for, you’re going to lose a kneecap as I am calling the police…. just sayin’

    “i think you said everything you needed to say in your first four words
    Your Christ must be so proud of you.”

    I can’t even believe you said that to this woman. Seriously, what were you thinking? You owe her nothing short of an apology, sorry but my respect has gone down a few points here… You need to check yourself on this one or your gonna have and estrogen overflow… serious.

    Raging.. I’m adding you to my blog roll… you rock, and proud to call you sister. 🙂

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  19. I am pretty blown away at the hate in your heart. “compared to what I could have chosen to write?” You mean you can get worse? Can someone please post a mirror in the comment box? Love has lost it’s creed.

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  20. Tam, Deb and Raging.

    You would not believe the level of hate i hold in my heart for ANYONE who would either take the life of another human being with a weapon that has NO OTHER PURPOSE and can do so at considerable distance from the corpse or who would encourage, support or permit another person to do the same. God gives life – only He is ‘authorised’ to take it from us and is more than capable of doing so at any second.

    This is the TOPIC of this post and is what all three of you seem intent upon ignoring or opposing and in one and possibly two cases actually claim Pride for. PRIDE???

    My words offend you – not loving enough?
    As i tried to say to Raging compared to what i could have said they are infinitely mild and compassionate – perhaps i have been spoiling you all by being so ‘normally’ ‘polite’ before?

    Having Hate in my heart for this – and for those who support this UTTER INSANITY you all seem to us to so love in the US for some UNGODLY reason is fortunately not a sin – since God Hates several things Himself and so has set the Precedent.

    Hate the Sin and not the sinner?

    Sound Christian advice.

    Clearly i am still very human in this and not inthe slightest bit Christian – but i have always said i don’t yet consider myself Christian – unlike all of you.

    Is this an excuse?

    i really don’t believe i have to excuse my actions here – that there is a far greater ‘sin’ being spoken of and justified by those who practice it. Or fully support it.

    Clearly we do not have a single point of agreement on this issue.

    Raging – if my words truly hurt you and if POTENTIAL events such as the DEFINITELY WOULD HAVE raped you rather than he actually did nothing at all to you (or anyone else it seems) but you allowed yourself and your imagination/fear of a single man to cause you to do something that could have had catastrophic effects on many people’s lives and to believe that such is an acceptable course of action then i am TRULY sorry for you – and for any whom you encourage to be like you in this regard.

    i say again – toughen up and fear God, not man ( or words) – and have no thought for your own life here on this world but saving the one you could have in the next.

    I HATE Guns and the people who believe they need to use them on another living human being – with a PASSION! Both criminals, as much as those who think they have the ‘right’ to use them in their own defence.

    They have no place in a modern society – even the police in the UK are not permitted to use one because it is known that violence begets violence and more criminals will arm themselves if the police do RESULTING IN MORE GUN DEATHS – just like happens in the US alone.. Police in large cities in the UK call in specially trained units as a last resort more like an army division than a police unit. Sadly here in Aus the powers that be chose to go the way of the US giving a person with 9 months total training a weapon designed to be used to kill not take off knee-caps.

    This is not a demosntration of my will for my police who are being isued with more tasers to try and reduce the number of tragedies where police kill people who might carry a knife or sword but no guns and who in a large number of recent cases are mental health patients who should have been taken care of in hospital rather than being kept out of them because of long tern underfunding of the mental health system and killed by police ‘defending the community we have all created.

    if i sin in this – that is my burden no-one else’s.

    God will show me if it is so and not you.

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  21. The fact that you admit to not being a Christian explains alot to me. You should not pretend to represent God or His word if that is the case. If I have to decide between me or my family suffering physical harm and the person losing a body part, they will lose a body part.

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  22. Debs – Clearly you are both an expert markswoman who never misses a target in any stressful circumstance and has God’s assurance your bullets will find the mark you intend with the intended results and you will never suffer an error of judgement while holding or owning a loaded gun. Neither wil any member of your household where a gun is kept to be used against someone.

    Again – you justify your personal belief and behaviour with a spcific ‘argument’ while being incapable of considering an opposing one.

    What if rather than the ‘choice’ you feel is the only possibility for a gun owner, the ‘choice’ is instead between your husband, in a time of extreme despair, having a bottle of Bourbon and a gun handy and blowing his brains out or just having a fully loaded bottle of bourbon in the house with no gun??

    Sure – he might find some rope, or swallow some pills – the point is every year in the US SEVEN BILLION ROUNDS of ammunition are bought and therefore one assumes are also fired and it only takes a minute fraction of these to cause a lifetime of misery for those who are left behind after their loved one loses their life to a gun fired by someone with no respect for human life.

    You have knives in your home, you have golf clubs maybe? a lump of 4 x 2? – they are more than sufficient ‘defence’ should anyone ever enter your home without your permission – God forbid!

    Feel threatened? get a dog capable of attacking an intruder – very few people ever die from dog bites. and suicides by dog or accidental dog bites are almost impossible to find in the death statistics – unlike gun crimes.

    The insanity only grows it seems. 😦

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  23. Actually it would probably be a lot safer for me to handle an intruder than you, that’s for sure. I’ve grown up around them, and have NEVER even had the thought of blowing someone’s brains out because of anger… that whole scenario is just ludicrous. I’m glad to see tho that it is ok to stab them, and beat them with a golf club and sick a dog on them….

    Did you know that in every instance where the citizens had the right to carry a concealed weapon that the crime rates fell dramatically when the people exercised their right? In Oregon in the first 7 months of 1990, homicide fell 33 percent when the law was mandated that citizens could carry after a background check. That is the second largest drop in any major city. Who do you think is going to get raped and robbed? A house where it is known that there is a gun and someone who doesn’t mind using it, or one who doesn’t?

    Just because there are guns doesn’t mean there are gun problems. I don’t live in fear B, you do. You live in fear of something that you know very little about and I doubt you have ever experienced. I don’t live in fear because I am responsible with my fire arms, I control them, they don’t control me.

    But it is good to know that I can stab and pumel someone first…. I guess I could try it and see if they stay down.

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  24. so stabbing someone in the chest with a knife is somehow not as bad as shooting them in their knee?

    now that is strange. each would result in injury…either due to self-defense or anger. doesnt make one less acceptable than the other.

    im baffled.

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  25. bob, you once told me not to hate anything. you now say you hate guns and the people who support them/use them (specifically on other people).

    weve all, us 3 ladies, have mentioned gun use if need be. none of us ever expressed a desire to kill any one single person.

    if i had to defend myself, or my family, in order to save a life and there was a gun within my reach…i would use it…not to kill – but to stop an attacker.

    all that to say…i guess you would/do hate me.

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  26. Debs, Tam – you are just refusing to get it!

    You are swallowing the camel while straining at the gnat!!

    Guns and bullets have a single sole purpose – to KILL! You might think you are always good enough using one to do what you intend and that your gun will never be used in any other way than in doing His ‘work’???

    – You’re sick! or seriously insane – hence my title in my post.

    Tam – if you are buying into that form of insanity then i guess we have currently what is a love-hate relationship – care to see if we can make it one or the other – i’m wondering why you don’t actually have a gun in your house at the moment given your wilingness to use one and seeming strong desire to not cal anyone who has one out on this yourself? Or be able to see my actual point?

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  27. Bwah haahahah, now the man who isn’t a Christian is quoting scripture. Hum camel or gnat, I cant’ decide. Perhaps you may want to update your avatar there Mr. Love. As I read these comments I see the anger and rage with in you and I doubt you have a nice smile on your face. You are not hurting me at all. I am watching you hurt yourself, over and over by attatcking me and every one else. Love has lost it’s creed.

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  28. Bob, what concerns me the most out of this entire post is that you have professed to not be a Christ follower. I will be praying for you. There is no way that you can possibly understand the Holy Spirit, Jesus or God for that matter without first submitting your life to Him. You’re operating out of head knowledge, not the true knowledge that comes from the One who created you and desires that relationship.

    Along the lines of the other, I’m not “refusing to get” anything. Guns do not have to be death weapons. You still have not answered the question of why it is ok to cause serious physical harm to someone by another means, but not blow a toe off to give you some getaway time…

    “and that your gun will never be used in any other way than in doing His ‘work’???” I’m sorry, but statements like these mean nothing from someone who doesn’t know Him or what that really may be. I really pray you will take that step so you can come to a full understanding of what you attempt to speak of.

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  29. if i had to defend myself, or my family, in order to save a life and there was a gun within my reach…i would use it…not to kill – but to stop an attacker.

    Gee, Tam. I’d aim for his head.

    Murder is wrong. Sometimes you have to kill. Being anti-violence, anti- killing, anti- war does not mean that you should never engage in violence, kill or wage war. At times you may need to temporarily become what you are not, what you loathe, in order to stand up and protect the innocent and the abused.

    I like this quote from Thic Nhat Han, a Buddhist who also loves Christ:

    If we divide reality into two camps – the violent and the nonviolent – and stand in one camp while attacking the other, the world will never have peace. We will always blame and condemn those we feel are responsible for wars and social injustice, without recognizing the degree of violence in ourselves. We must work on ourselves and also with those we condemn if we want to have a real impact.

    It never helps to draw a line and dismiss some people as enemies, even those who act violently. We have to approach them with love in our hearts and do our best to help them move in a direction of nonviolence. If we work for peace out of anger, we will never succeed. Peace is not an end. It can never come about through non-peaceful means.

    Hey Love, howya been?

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  30. Oh, and Love, if someone above has already helped you with the math, forgive me.

    Most sources figure about 80 million gun owners in the US. That ‘s about 23% of the population. Hardly the OK Corral.

    But let’s say that there are about 20 million recreational shooter in the States – around 12 million hunters (an accurate figure) and 8 million target shooters (for sport or home defense practice). That’s around 7% of the population. These folks probably fire most of the ammo among private citizens.

    But then there are the law enforcement folk, who also practice a lot, probably more than the private folk, who are purchasing even more ammo.

    Even working with just the 20 million hunters and other private citizens this only works out to about to about 350 rounds of ammunition each. Or around 7 rounds fired in a week.

    Heck, when I used to target shoot, I could go through a couple of hundred rounds in an afternoon. And I never killed one person. Not once.

    It’s amazing to me, that with all this ammo being bought, why half the country ain’t dead, since as you point out, this enough to kill all of us many times over. We must be lousy shots. 😉

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  31. just quickly skimmed the comments on this….

    clarification: love, do you not agree that owning a gun for the sake of hunting (for purposes of food, not sport) is an acceptable thing?

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  32. J-R – glad to hear you’re alive – and well i trust?) 🙂

    Frankly – if such could be in any way used as a ‘wedge’ to justify the ownership and use of handguns, rifles and semi to fully automatic weapons and assault rifles/machine guns in cities in the US ( or any other nation) then i would be compelled to say – No!

    I have owned a bow and arrow and used it for target practice and have never considered using it to hunt for food – these days i cannot justify it in my society.

    If there is such a strong desire (or an actual need) for man to hunt for food then i could justify the ownership of one – even the modern ‘compound’ bows which tend to give a hunter an even stronger ‘advantage over their prey.

    But a rifle?? If you can absolutely 100% guarantee me it won’t be used to kill a human, intentionally or unnitentionally and that it will never be stolen by anyone who would willingly do such – then….. possibly… maybe – but i think the risk would make it unnecessarily unwise to do so..

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  33. CHRIS! nice to see your comments, it’s been a while 🙂

    Physically i am good thanks – as for the rest… com si com ca?

    i don’t think anyone else helped with the math angle i’m pleased you did.

    80 million Americans owning guns – hardly the OK corral??

    more like 10 million potential OK Corral’s and at 10,000 dead per year that would work out to a much more ‘acceptable’ one thousand OK corral’s a year every year – yes?

    In 21st century America – not the 1850’s?? ( by which time the constitution that gives you the right, but not obligation to bear arms, was almost a century old)?.

    i agree with you – the ‘recreational’ ( those people who use guns for fun ( similar to the classification of ‘recreational’ or ‘party’ drug use)) would use most of the seven billion rounds every year – but it only takes 0.0000000014% of a years worth of bullet use to kill a person and end one and ruin several other people’s lives for ever!!

    So those fun gun owners could use 99.9999999986% of all bullets bought in America and i still don’t think their fun justifies the loss those people who are related to a single victim will feel – can you seriously argue they do?

    Why is it that people are so devoutly convinced guns should be a part of modern societal life? do they truly believe it is too hard to stop them?

    As has been pointed out by the pro gun lobbyists – there are plenty of other ways to kill people – why do we still need this one?

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  34. you could justify it if you were unable to buy deer meat at the grocery store….

    (which it’s incredibly healthy, and since the population of white-tailed dear in the US, especially in my state, increases about as quickly as that of rabbits, we thank God for the hunters. it’s a much safer way of killing a deer than accidentally getting in a “car-wreck” with one)

    i completely understand what you mean. the ownership of guns like assault rifles is just plain ridiculous.

    but you may not realize that in America, especially in the south, hunting continues to be a cost-efficient way of providing for your family. that may seem “barbaric” to you, but it is a way of life for us.

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  35. Love, by this kind of reckoning we shouldn’t be driving cars, at least not for recreational purposes, like taking vacations or going to the movies. The lives lost on our nation’s highways (and don’t forget – Australia, the home of Mad Max makes some pretty fast muscle cars) would be greatly reduced if more people just stayed home. I’ll bet some cars have even been used to intentionally inflict some harm upon others.

    Good point Joy, But it might help to remind the folks here that “assault rifles” have been illegal since the 1930s. That what the press and anti-gun people call “assault rifles” are have only single shot capability – no automatic fire. They do look like assault (rapid fire) but they aren’t. It’s just another example of scapegoating. Demonizing these weapons does absolutely nothing to reduce social violence – they just make people feel better about themselves. (Sort of like giving to the United Way at Christmas time) And nothing plinks a varmint better than an AR-15 (which I just shot for the first time, wanting to see what it was like shooting the M-16 my son is carrying in the Corps.)

    As a famous Aussie (at heart) once said:” Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

    The problem is not guns – it’s hatred. I person filled with hatred can do more damage and cause more pain and suffering with fertilizer and ammonia than with a gun.

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  36. On the other hand:

    “Our main agenda is to have ALL guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn’t matter if you have to distort facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.”

    …and

    “I don’t believe gun owners have rights.”

    Sarah Brady, Center to Prevent Gun Violence

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  37. J-R – i hope you are sitting down….

    would you believe?

    i AM unable to buy deer meat from my (or any in Aus) grocery store!) – and yet i survive and do not feel unnecessarily deprived carnivorally in any way. 🙂

    So truthfully – in response to your first line – i still couldn’t justify it given the potential dangers. ( and the certainty of 10000 americans killed every year by a small proportion of the 7 billion rounds bought every year)

    This may be a minor cultural difference between me here in Aus and you in the South of the US compared to the far more major cultural difference that our constitution does not give us the right to own a gun or bear arms and in the main it is not taken up even though we as free citizens do have a right to purchase them here.

    But to show that we do share something ‘in common’ we do have kangaroos here, the meat of which is somewhat ‘gamey’ and the roo’s themselves do at certain times breed in excess and are considered a pest in various parts of the countryside and are culled by professional shooters and some amateurs who may shoot animals for fun more than the meat.

    As i said previously – if hunting IS actually considered essential or necessary for food production ( or as in the cases above because an animal breeds so rapidly as to be considered pestilent) then i do not consider any who do such as barbarians. But i still consider there are enough ways to hunt or kill without the non-essential bullet firing weapon (gun).

    i believe guns are only necessary in the hands of policemen and our Army – and after living in the UK without being killed for 11 years where most policemen don’t carry guns – even before the invention of tasers and CS spray – then i have reservations about our police force carrying them in all cases.

    The Army i feel is only really required to carry them because we are unable to legislate against them in other people’s countries and history shows a country with superior firepower invariably is going to invade a country with riches and a poorer weapon quality.

    I recently heard that Ted Nugent, the old hard rocker, won a squirrel shooting championship in the US – USING A BOW AND ARROWS – he reputedly shot 26 squirrels.

    Would Landry consider replacing the rifle with a bow? 😉

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  38. Chris – apologies, for some reason my wordpress is still requiring your posts to be ‘moderated’ – not my doing.

    i am a little disappointed that you are unable to logically see the difference between the gun and the car. One is non-esential and should be a crime to own in a civilised modern society – the other is a dangerous but basically essential weapon that has penalties in place for it’s deliberate (and in some cases even the ‘accidental’) misuse but also has a valid purpose in today’s modern society.

    In the same way i don’t condone cars being banned (for recreational use) i don’t condone knives be banned, nail-guns be banned, hammers be banned or even bows and arrows be banned – my sole ‘complaint’ here is the ownership of guns by non-army personnel in a modern society.

    This is despite the fact that in the last month a father drove his car at 70 mph into a tree on the side of the road just south of my home city with the express purpose of killing both himself and his two young sons that he was returning to his mother as he had just finished his short custodial session with them, the parents being separated and guardianship of the kids was given to the mother. The car’s motor was pushed all the way back inside the cabin by the force of the impact and all three were incinerated as the car burst into flame.

    i’m not stupid or sanctimonious enough to believe a country can ever legislate against hatred – that is with us to stay, sadly. But it would actually be a remarkably easy thing to legislate to make it a crime to own a gun.

    If that reduces the number of Americans murdered by guns each year down to nil while perhaps increasing the number killed by all other means at our disposal by a number such as 9800 ( i trulty cannot believe that having no guns would result in MORE murders) then that is 200 victims and countless more in family members who would not have to suffer the loss of a loved one’s life.

    i truly believe that it would be worth the ‘cost’.

    VERY clearly – the majority of Americans don’t yet share my vision.

    ‘On the Other Hand’….

    There are raving loonies on both sides of the argument – are you suggesting something?? 🙂

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  39. i agree that there are other ways to hunt for animals.
    unfortunately, i think that might be even more hazardous, since there are no classes in most “hunting” types of communities for weapons such as bows. we have shooting ranges, but no plethora of the like for the other option.

    i do strongly feel that there needs to be a HUGE crack-down on how weapons are sold, and to whom. it is my understanding that it is not that we can own guns that is the danger, but that it has become increasingly easier to own them. almost anyone.

    THAT is not acceptable. but neither is disallowing the ownership of guns (specifically ‘hunting’ weapons, rather than say…an ak-47).

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  40. “is telling her (raging) that you could have really torn her down if you had felt like it somehow supposed to make your existing comments appear loving or justified?”

    this is really the only question i desire for you to answer.

    feel free.

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  41. Tam – no.

    that was solely meant to give Raging a better perspective on the issue than she previously held.

    She seemed to think the first two lines i wrote in response to her were about the most heinous crime she could possibly imagine ( or so her continued reactions here appeared to me) me as committing to her.

    i attempted to assure her that this was in fact no where near the case and that i had not intended to give her anywhere near the pain i could have chosen to if i was the kind of person she was making me out to be.

    if those two sentences caused her so much agony in her life that such responses were showing her to be feeling then frankly she needs to get in the real world more than she apparently does.

    if i was the horrible person i was being made out to be i would be far more brutal to her than i actually was.

    in fact if i was as horrible as that and if she came to my house to drag my ass down to church as she promised i may even have to shoot her in the kneecaps! or perhaps worse still?

    Not justifying – just explaining the facts. Using comparable forms of logic to the ludicrous ones that have been applied by most in this post so far.

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  42. J-R – underneath it all we seem to be of a largely similar mind – i simply go one further ‘step’ along the road to a possible legislative solution to the horrible number of people who lose their lives to guns in the US every year.

    as for the shooting galleries and no bow and arrow classes…. all it takes is for the shooting gallery owners to do nothing more than replace the word ‘shooting’ with ‘bow and arrow’

    market forces will then quickly take care of the rest 😉 ( assuming the legislation has been passed making gun ownership a crime)

    Then Americans can shoot animals to their hearts content! 🙂 with comparitive safety by no longer having any reason not to know how to correctly shoot one.

    i would hope to increase your understanding by pointing out the fact that even the most responsible and cautious gun owner can never guarantee that their gun will not be used illegally by someone other than themselves – a family member or a burglar.

    i FULLY appreciate that the same argument can be made for a bow and arrow HOWEVER if we legislate that no-one own a gun then 10000 a year people cannot be killed by one.

    Evidence from similar places to cities in the US shows that where guns are not in common ownership murder rates fall by about 60 % ( some 6000 people a year in your country’s case) while most other forms of human violent crime stats are quite similar to those in the US.

    i believe this is worth the ‘inconvenience’ to some.

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  43. “just explaining the facts. Using comparable forms of logic to the ludicrous ones that have been applied by most in this post so far.”

    Gee, do you mean like everything you have said and tried to portray about our God, one you don’t profess to be your own, yet feel compelled to tell everyone what He’s like and how they should walk with Him????

    Couldn’t agree more, although ludicrous is too nice of a word.

    “if i was the horrible person i was being made out to be i would be far more brutal to her than i actually was.”

    What do you mean IF? I’m just praising God He brought who you truly are to light for everyone to see, you can only be phony so long before He says “enough”. And yes, I’m pretty ticked at you right now… how dare you?

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  44. Gee Debs – nice slice of judgement pie you’ve thrown my way 😀 – and all from what i have said in a comment to a blog-post??

    I should be getting used to this from you by now i guess? has your halo slipped yet again??

    i actually said i don’t yet consider myself to be Christian (meaning that i always DO all as Christ did – VERY much like you in fact) i don”t consider myself to be a qualified mathematician either – but i can confidently state the simple stuff in maths and show you why 2+2 always = 4 and even a little bit more complex stuff than that. Similarly i am VERY capable of reading the Bible and letting spirit lead my understanding of it and say some of the more simple stuff when people completely fail to get it right – again – just like you!

    It’s that ego thing again i guess? Plus the fact both you and i are quite clearly human with very human issues still.

    get the point yet??

    PS Jesus forgives sinners their sins. (but NOT when they are sins against the Holy Spirit that those who are in Christ are to be IN)

    Bless you

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  45. My halo slips every day Bob, and I seriously doubt you do all that Christ did. Yes, it’s my job to judge heretics. They’re called sheep in wolves clothing in the scripture, and I seriously doubt that is what you meant at all. The fact that you think it is your actions which make you a Christian, shows how very little you know about the entire topic. The only ego here is yours. You still have no idea what you are talking about, but at least you do it with authority. Wonderful.

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