Ok – This one is BUGGING me Big Time…

…Answers on a postcard please and send to… Actually just put them in the comments section below! 😉

16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 6:16-19

how do we then view this passage?:

20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

1 Kings 22:20-23

So, while a lying Tongue and bearing false witness is an Abomination to the Lord… it is OK for him to have one of His Heavenly Host come to Earth and make prophets speak falsely when it suits God’s purpose (or removing a King of Israel who was asking for the Word of God but who had difficulty seeing the difference between his own desire and that of God???

I’m not going to Judge Ahab ( or God here). Ahab presumably was an evil man to deserve such ‘extreme’ treatment from the Lord – that’s His call, not mine… but Even though God gave Ahab the choice of listening to the prophet Micaiah and he chose to follow his own heart backed up by the rest of his ‘prophets’ and paid the Ultimate price, how does this justify the use of lying as authorised by ‘The Lord’?

I really would like some understanding on this one because it seems to say to me that an Abomination to the Lord is ‘ok’ if it serves His purpose??

That bugs me somewhat as it makes my own life seeking to do His will far more complicated.

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10 thoughts on “Ok – This one is BUGGING me Big Time…

  1. Satan is always going to throw something your way to make things complicated to do God’s will. We shouldn’t think that God is ever at a loss for a way to accomplish his goals. God is not the creator of sin or the reason why any man tells or believes lies. We may not understand how God does things and until we meet him we never will. Read the book of Job for more insight on how God does what God wants and it is just.

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  2. Welcome Raging – or may i call you A J ? 😉
    Satan as the Master of Lies ruling the Earth for a time i have no problem with. ( well,.. you know – God’s Will there sort of thing – i hate lies – even when i’m speaking them! 🙂 )

    I have read Job – although it is probably overdue for a re-read and understand God ‘tests’ us in order that we learn and stay true in our Faith – particularly when our ego and pride etc get in the Way. (Or block our Way to Him to be more precise)

    But please take a moment to read 1 Kings Ch 22 in Full. As i read it it seems to be quite clear that The Lord approves of one of HIS Spirits ( Angels?) in Heaven going to Earth with the intent of making men deliberately lie in order for the King of Israel to be deceived and so go todie in battle so as to be removed from power.

    My point being and as you pointed out God is NEVER at a loss to accomplish His goals so why OK the spirit’s plan to intentionally make some prophets/men lie to the king as His way of doing His will – When we are told He sees lying as an Abomination?

    I just don’t get it? I cannot believe it was necessary for men to be made to lie through an agent of The Lord, not of their own free will, in order for Ahab to be killed and God’s Tuth be revealed to all of Israel.

    1 Kings 22 says it very clearly was the case in this one instance. That lying was ordained by God, not Satan, for the fulfilment of a part of His Plan.

    For me and many humans this is akin to my father beating me with a strap as a lesson in how not to treat other people unfairly with violence.

    Sure their may have been a greater wisdom to be gained – it just seems that there were alternatives that did not require the Lord to do Himself what He Abhors and commands others not to do if we are to be His and be like unto Him.

    Or am i missing something do you think?

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  3. yah. on another note…i cant believe you called me a stat ho on rachels blog. i can see you calling mandy that…but me!?

    psh. you are in big trouble mister.

    love, me

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  4. Ii’m not sure what to say about this passage other than it is the same type situation that will happen in the end times. God will send a deluding influence upon the people who have already forsaken Him. Much as Pharoah hardened his heart again and again and then it says God hardened Pharoah’s heart.

    I do see that He sent a deceiving spirit upon prophets who were already deceitful. I don’t really know how this works in the heavenlies, Love. I do know that it was God who asked Satan if he had thought about His servant Job. And that He does as He wishes among the inhabitants of the earth. He will fulfill His purposes.

    The two links below my help further in answering your question.

    This is an article that helps to explain a bit:
    http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=2407

    These are some verses to further explain God’s sovereignty:
    http://net.bible.org/search.php?search=god%20does%20as%20he%20pleases%20among%20the%20inhabitants%20of%20the%20earth&mode=&scope=

    I come down on the side of understanding God is good. All of His purposes are good and His ways are not our ways, or His thoughts our thoughts.

    I do trust Him and know He is the Creator, the Potter who can determine if a vessel is used for honor or dishonor. It is all about Him. He commands the hosts of heaven in any way He determines.

    Hope this helps. 😉

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  5. Thank you very much for looking into this for me Sis 🙂

    Sadly though – after reading your first link (bible.org) things now are even worse for me 😦

    Problem: 1 This was achieved, not through the deceit of man – but by the God-Ordained lying of 400 prophets who were declaring the word of God as they believed it because they had been deceived by one of God’s Spirits under God’s Command.

    Problem 2: – in the final verses of the preceding Chapter of Kings (1 Kings 21) are these words…
    Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son’s days will I bring the evil upon his house.

    Ahab was killed at Ramoth Gilead by an arrow fired ‘at random’.
    God therefore ensured His Word (as we are told in 1 Kings 22 by Micaiah) to see Ahab fall.

    As best i can make out Ahab did TRY to follow God’s word and not do his own will only ( ie repentence, calling for prophets of the Lord to announce what was to be done).. being human – the way God Made him – he, like all of us, was often subject to getting a little ‘over-confident’ in our own holiness and begin to believe we are doing God’s work when in fact we are listening more to our ego than to His Word.

    One other thought: God ensured Ahab had major unexpected victories against Syria when He was defending his lands from Syrian offensives into the Land God gave to Israel – when Ahab decided to rise up against the Syrians in Ramoth Gilead (in the land orignally owned by Manasseh) and became the agressor (presumably because the King of Syria had not honoured the conditions he was freed under by Ahab after the last Israeli victory to return Israeli lands God ensured the Israeli King was killed, even though he believed in God and had previously repented for his defiance of Him.

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  6. A couple of thoughts that may help (and I haven’t researched either enough to take a firm position):

    First, the Hebrew words used for lying/falsehood in each passage are different. There could be different shades of meaning, or context, that is not accurately reflected in the translations that could account for the apparent contradiction.

    Second, the passage in 1 Kings does not specify that the spirit who came forward with the proposal was one of God’s. We see in Job that Satan himself presented himself to God along with the other angels, and God allowed him to go out and test Job. It is not unreasonable to conclude that one of Satan’s followers may have been there for the conversation, offered his proposal, and was permitted by God, who uses even the wicked to accomplish His purposes, to go into the mouths of the prophets.

    Just a couple of thoughts, which may or may not be the case…Interesting question to chew on…

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  7. Great refreshing thoughts. I understand God to be the great engineer of circumstance. Man has free will to choose. God knew the heart of this man and knew what circumstances would be required to accomplish His purpose. Maybe the angel (whether one of His or one of theirs) just set the stage and man’s evil nature made the choice.

    It makes me wonder about my own bad choices. How many were engineered by the the evil one with expectations, I would take the bait?

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  8. Welcome ‘Mom’ ( and Archie again) 🙂

    I am most grateful for your input and will consider your comments some more.

    That God tolerates and uses Satan in His Plan for us on Earth is undeniable, from Scriptural and observational evidence. I just found it something of a ‘revelation’ that Scripture stats God accepted such spirit’s idea as it suited His Purpose for Ahab – who in the end of the preceding chapter had said of Him ‘i will bring no evil on him but on His Children.’ ( 1 Kings 21:27 – quote and verse from memory here!)

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