Which (whose) Way are we following?

Ok so a case of the ‘Flu has meant i have not been in the blogosphere as much as  before and i have managed to do even less than when i was spending hours a day here ( What’s a normal life like again? anyone remember?) 😉

But i’m happy to report i am almost fully recovered and can write at least one more new post….

The topic of living IN Him has been on my mind and heart and in my thoughts a great deal recently and i’d like to share something i came up with (hopefully ‘through’ Him) and see if any of you agree with, or can add to it…

Many Christians and believers seem to me to try to keep Him ‘in’ us. One example of this is the concept of what would Jesus do? ( WWJD?) where we attempt to ask ourself in any given situation what would he have done ( if he were us – or more acurately if He were where we find ourselves now) in the hope that we can become, or at least for that moment, act, more like the way we think He may have.

More simply: some may try to keep Him ‘in our Hearts’.

I don’t really believe we are able to do that at all. To me that is like taking an empty cup, dipping it into the Pacific Ocean, lifting it out and declaring we have THE Pacific Ocean in our cup when what we have in fact is a cup of salty water. 

God is infinite – we are much less so; believing that we have Him ‘inside’ is quite arrogant and not very humble, as i see it.

I do not doubt for one second that we have Spirit within and that Spirit is OF God, but it is not ‘Him’

 

It seems to me to be a much better ‘arrangement’ if we desire to be in Him that we in fact BE – while becoming aware that we (every single one of us) exist entirely and completely within Him at all times (Acts 17:28) – even those times when all we are actually paying our attention to is our self – selfish thoughts, desires or wants… even selfish imaginings that we are doing what He wants for us when we quite clearly are doing what we want for us to do – which includes feeling like we are being ‘in’ Him.

I believe we should BE – in Him, not fool ourselves that we have Him ‘in us’ because we do ‘godly’ things, go to church, follow our own belief ( or sometimes the belief of others – perhaps those ‘in authority’ over us) of what Christ ‘IS’ ( and what His Father is also), read and do our best to follow Scripture – or the interpretation of Scripture that best agrees with what we think/feel/were taught is ‘The Right Thing’ – what ‘our’ God wants for us.

And this is the area of greatest confusion… how can we KNOW when we are doing what He wants compared to what we may incorrectly believe is His wish for us? is it a certain feeling? is it ‘certainty’? do we hear a bell or a trumpet when we get it ‘Right’??

How can we BE – in Him? And have some assuredness we are not deceiving ourself?

John (amongst others) has a word or three to say on that subject :

3 And hereby we know that we know Him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoso keepeth His word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in Him:
6 he that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also to walk even as He (Jesus) walked. (and let go of all worldly goods/possessions and live through Faith)

9 He that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother, is in the darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is no occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in the darkness, and walketh in the darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because the darkness hath blinded his eyes.

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the vain glory of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.(1 John 2)
There are Ten of His Commandments (Ex Ch 20) and the One Great Commandment – to love our neighbour (even those in other countries) AS OURSELVES!

 

Be! (follow the spirit that is at the heart of who we all are) – in Him!

 

…don’t try to put it the other way around.

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11 thoughts on “Which (whose) Way are we following?

  1. “Love Not The World”

    ”For the WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one”(I John 5:19)

    “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world will pass away, and the lust thereof: but he that does the will of The Only True GOD will abide for ever.” (I John 2:15-17)

    “If you were of the world, the world would love it’s own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said unto you, the servant is not greater than his Master. If they have persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept My saying, they will keep yours also.” (John 15:19-20)

    “Where do wars and fighting among you come from? Do they not come of your lusts that war in your members? You lust, and have not: you kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: you fight and war yet you have not, because you ask not. You ask, and receive not, because you ask amiss, that you may consume it upon your lusts. You adulterers and adulteresses, don’t you know that friendship with the world is to be at enmity with The Only True GOD? Therefore whoever will be a friend of the world is the enemy of The Only True GOD.” (James 4:1-4)

    “The world cannot hate you; but the world hates Me, because I testify that the works of this world are evil.” (John 7:7)” and “The Messiah gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of The Only True God, Our Father.”(Gal 1:4)

    The Messiah testified: “If the world hates you know that it hated Me before it hated you.”(John 5:18) Truly, Truly, I say unto you, except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone: but if it die it brings forth much fruit. He that loves his life in this world shall lose it; and he that hates his life in this world shall have it unto life eternal.” (John 12:24-25)

    John testified: “Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hates you.” (I John 3:13) “ James testified, “Whoever would be a friend of this world is the enemy of GOD”(James 4:4)

    The “earth” is The Creation of The Only True GOD, Father of ALL! The “worldly” systems are the creation of, and under the dominion of “the god of this world”, he who is “the father of lies”, he who “has blinded the minds of those who believe not The Messiah”! All the nations of this world are under the dominion of, and serve, the evil one for he provides the fuel that feeds mankind’s “imag”ination, and mankind’s “imagination is destroying and perverting Creation(land, air, water, creatures, Truth, Love, Peace, Faith, Simplicity, .etc.) ;-(

    And the “strongest thing” in the evil one’s worldly systems? “Woman”…… yet The Truth, that which is of The Only True GOD, is stronger even than woman. (read I Esdras 3&4 of the Apocrypha) And Truth, Love, Peace, Faith, Mercy, Hope,,,etc,,, all that is “good”, is of The Only True GOD and is of HIS Spirit, not of this world. Those born of The Spirit, those born of The Only True GOD, are the brethren of The Messiah, for they received “a love of The Truth that they might be saved”. Reborn!

    And those who have received “a love of The Truth” have separated themselves from this world and those of this world, for they have taken heed unto The Call of The Only True GOD to “Come out of her MY people.” They are “in, but not of this wicked, evil world”, and The Only True GOD has received them, and is “A Father unto them, and they are HIS sons and daughters”. And they follow, and desire to be like their Master and Brother, The Messiah, He Who was “the firstborn of many brethren”. And as “The Messiah was a servant of The Only True GOD”, so also His Brethren are “servants of The Only True GOD.”

    The called out ones are not “adulterers and adulteresses”, they are not “friends of this wicked, evil world”, they do not “fornicate with the god of this world” for they know that “to be a friend of this world is to be the enemy of The Only True GOD.” They are at war against the evil spirits that possess those who are of this world.

    And they do not “allow that woman Jezebel, which calls herself a prophetess, to teach. For she teaches others to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. The Only True GOD gave her a chance to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.” (Rev 2:20-21)

    “fornication” and “adultery..” in that which is recorded above signifies spiritual fornication with “the god of this world”, which is to love that which is of his world.

    Once again, the “earth” is The Creation of The Only True GOD, Father of ALL! The “worldly” systems are the creation of, and under the dominion of “the god of this world”. Those who “love this world” all serve “the god of this world”, and play their part in the processes that seek to destroy The Creation of The Only True GOD. “And The Only True GOD will destroy them who destroy the earth.” (Rev 11:18) Global warming, polluted air, land and waters, toxic wastes, sexual perversion, evil inventions of destruction, greed, hate, carnal warfare, dis-ease ,,,etc,,, are all destructive processes that have their root in “the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life”. And as stated, “woman is the strongest thing of this world”. Yet stronger than woman is The Truth, which is in those who have “received a love of The Truth”. The Truth Is Alive in those who have been born of The Spirit for “they no longer love this wicked, evil world and it’s things, nor do they love their own lives in this world”. They but seek and desire The Will of GOD, as they await their final transformation. “Corruptible to Incorruptible” ndeed and Truth!

    Now “the ground was cursed for Adam’s sake” because he “hearkened unto the woman”. Adam listened to a woman rather than obeying The Only True GOD. Yet because of Faithful Noah, The Only True GOD “no longer would curse the ground for man’s sake” because Noah obeyed The Only True GOD! (Genesis 8:21-22) And the Faithful today are exhorted to “love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.” And Faithful women are exhorted to “be in silence.” “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. For I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” “For Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I Timothy 2:11,12,14) A man and woman joined together in obedience and submission unto The Only True GOD are blessed indeed. All who are not obedient, all who will not submit themselves unto The Only True GOD will have to answer to HIM..period.. Be not of those who deny and defy “The One GOD, Father of All”. Be not of those who are destroying and perverting HIS Creation(land, air, water, creatures, Truth, Love, Peace, .etc.)!

    “The Only True GOD is The HEAD of The Messiah, The Messiah is The Head of the man, and the man is the head of the woman”. Multitudes pervert GOD’s Order because they have been seduced by ” the commandments and doctrines of men and devils”. Multitudes are seduced by the religious systems that are in and of this evil world. Seduced because they love this evil world and their own life in it! “Set your affections on things above”. Desire heavenly, eternal things. Quit serving ‘time’ in the prison that is this world and take heed unto the call to ”Come out from among them and be separate!”

    Once again, “Come out” of the worldly systems, which are the product of mankind’s “imag”ination, especially the religious systems. “Come out” from among those who are destroying and perverting Creation and be of those who follow The Messiah on “The Way to The Truth of The Life”.

    Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that is of this world……. francisco

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  2. we have Him in us because He tells us we do. “Christ IN you, the hope of glory.”

    Him in me, me in Him, Him in God, all sealed together by the Holy Spirit — gotta love that.

    hope you’re feeling better!

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  3. Hey, Love! I’m so sorry to hear you’ve been ill. I hope you’re gaining strength every day. I thought I’d just add these to the one Alece left:

    I IN them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. ~John 17:23

    “If you love me, you will obey my commandments. Then I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you forever – the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept, because it does not see him or know him. But you know him, because he resides with you and will be IN you.
    “I will not abandon you as orphans, I will come to you. In a little while the world will not see me any longer, but you will see me; because I live, you will live too. You will know at that time that I am in my Father and you are IN me and I am IN you. The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him.” ~John 14:15-21

    Love you!!!!

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  4. Hi Francisco – you said a lot! As it appears that most of what you said is from Scripture i have nothing to add 🙂
    Peace.

    Leesh – like i said – i have no doubt each and every one of us has Spirit within, Spirit which is of God and also that we live IN Him, within the entirety of Him who is in and the Original cause of everything we see about and within us.

    Having said that i believe it is very important we do not deceive ourselves with ‘false evidence’ or by taking Truth and applying it in an inappopriate fashion.

    ‘Christ in you, the Hope of Glory’ is taken from Paul’s letter to the Saints and faithful bretheren in Collosae. Col 1:27 and when looked at in context i believe the statement ‘Christ in you’ is referring to a ‘plural’ you – gentiles ( non-jewish people) in general and the group Paul defines in Collosae in Asia Minor (a part of current day Turkey) in particular.

    Taking that line as a personal guarantee that Christ lives within each one of us individually in His perfect state all the time (which is what i was attempting to say was where we need to be by BEing In Him, in my post is, i fear exceeding the intent of Paul’s words.

    I am sure we both believe Christ ‘in’ each of us who believe in Him and love Him but it is abundantly obvious that we are not IN Him and only doing the Will of He who sent Him for every waking second of our day – we spend a very great deal of our time occupied with our own thoughts, desires, dreams and doing our will not His.

    in short, the majority of people on this planet and in our communities spend more time ‘IN’ our individual ‘self’ than in Him.

    i desire to learn how i can reverse that position for myself.

    i suspect i already have sufficient information necessary – my problem is – like so many of us – i am uncomfortable with the idea of giving up all that makes me so comfortable – or gives me the illusion of comfort – and exchanging it for the ‘unknown and walking in His footsteps – following ‘The Way, and The Light of The World’. and giving up ‘my life’.

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  5. Hey Sis – so good to see you here again 🙂

    Thank you for your kind wishes and prayer.

    The words you wrote are True – but again i would offer caution as to taking truth and applying it to a wider ‘range’ than the words themselves indicate. ( so as to include things beneficial to our own self when we were not the intended recipient).

    Jesus is talking of ‘them’ in John 17:6 – reading in context he says: “I manifested thy name unto the men whom thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them to me; and they have kept thy word.”

    He says He MANIFESTED the name of God in them who thou gavest me and i would argue strongly that by ‘them’ Jesus is referring to the 12 with whom he spent much time teaching them what He himself knew and believed above any other Human at that time concerning God and how we are to foillow only His Will through the ability to BE in Him only and not in our own ‘state of mind’/heart.

    Again in John 14 Jesus is at the last Supper and speaking with the 12 and he mentiones the lines you quote – which could be read by some as meaning all we have to do is love Him and all is well – He comes to us and is in us.

    But read on beyond those lines in verses 25,26: “These things have I spoken unto you, while [yet] abiding with you. But the Comforter, [even] the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.”

    He tells the 12 disciples who spent years of their lives in the presence of Jesus and who loved Him that they had not yet the Holy Ghost within them! That the Comforter was yet to come!

    These are considered by us today as holy saints and rightly so but Jesus says to THEM “had you loved me you would have rejoiced for i go unto the father (vs 28)” and because they had not yet loved Him and therefore His Father that the Holy Spirit had not yet descended on them!

    This was at the feast of Passover just prior to Christ’s crucifiction and he says those who had followed him faithfully for so long did not yet love Him!

    We fool ourselves greatly if we believe we can love him just by saying it with our mouths and thinking we do so in our minds -that because he has promised to come to us who love him that we yet are IN Him sufficiently.

    Jesus tells us to follow the commandments of His Father and gave us one great commandment – but this commandment did not eliminate the others. Paul says we know we love Him if we keep and follow His commandments ( not singular).

    I would like to believe that the 12 being Jewish and followers of Christ did indeed keep all His commandments yet he tells them they did not yet love him sufficient for the Holy Spirit to have yet entered them but that this was yet to come.

    BEing in Him is not a simply achieved thing – or rather it could very easily be achieved but requires us all to give up a very great deal of our own lives we surround ourselves in every day first – and it will come when He knows we are ready – not when we feel we are!

    I’m greatly concerned that many ‘believers’ today only think they believe in their own mind – out of ego more than out of a genuine love… which is just one reason why we often see in the headlines that church leaders and priests or bishops are accused of child abuse or mass deceptions – lies – despite a lying tongue being hated of God ( Twice over) – Prov 6:16-20 “16 There are six things which Jehovah hateth; Yea, seven which are an abomination unto him:
    17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood;
    18 A heart that deviseth wicked purposes, Feet that are swift in running to mischief,
    19 A false witness that uttereth lies, And he that soweth discord among brethren.
    20 My son, keep the commandment of thy father, And forsake not the law of thy mother. ”

    We need to be careful in our understandings and interpretations and speak only the truth to all.

    love you, Sis.♥ ♥ ♥

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  6. “The words you wrote are True – but again i would offer caution as to taking truth and applying it to a wider ‘range’ than the words themselves indicate. ( so as to include things beneficial to our own self when we were not the intended recipient). Jesus is talking of ‘them’ in John 17:6 – reading in context…”

    We need to look at the whole of the prayer for context, not just the beginning:

    17:20 “I am not praying only on their behalf, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their testimony, 17:21 that they will all be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you. I pray that they will be in us, so that the world will believe that you sent me. 17:22 The glory you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one – 17:23 I in them and you in me – that they may be completely one, so that the world will know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me…

    v. 20 That’s us!!! We are those who believe because of their testimony…the whole prayer applies to us.

    And then in John 14 He is speaking of all that the Comforter will do — His role in us — once Jesus has left the world. It is His Spirit — one with the Father and Son — who comes to abide in us and wil teach us all things. He speaks of the role of the Spirit in Chap. 16.

    “We need to be careful in our understandings and interpretations and speak only the truth to all.”

    Amen!! We do need to be careful for if we haven’t spoken the truth then we will definitely lead others astray. And we have the “lovely” admonition that as teachers we will incur a stricter judgment. That should keep us on our toes!! (James 3:1)

    ♥ U2!!

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  7. I thank you for showing me john 17:20 and i have no hesitation in believing Him and His Word.

    i do though still see a danger in being too quick to extend what is written beyond what is intended.

    as i see it Jesus says he is praying not merely for the 12 apostles he was addressing but for all those yet to come ‘who shall believe on me’ – i think how Jesus understands the term ‘believe on Him’ and how many today understand the term (and ‘practice’ – of being in Him in Spirit) could have some ‘variance’.

    i feel that i currently would not ‘fit’ into those Jesus includes in His prayer, as recounted by John.

    As for John 14 i struggle with seeing what Jesus was saying goes beyond the 12 in this instance?

    I am happy to listen to any proof to the contrary?

    I am constrained by my own ego to not, out of pride, or hunger, or desire, interpret in my own favour what i do not deserve before He finds me ‘worthy’

    I have not had – as the Apostles did – the benefit of being in His physical and spiritual presence and am amazed at what i read in the gospels of His inability to raise a sufficient level of faith within each of them such that they were unable to receive the Holy Spirit before the last supper.

    i have no doubt they ‘believed’, but He did it seems to me?

    at least before He was Risen.

    How much more difficult is it then for me than them?

    Yet i have Hope while in this life. 🙂

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  8. “i feel that i currently would not ‘fit’ into those Jesus includes in His prayer, as recounted by John.”

    They believed He was the Messiah but did not know all that entailed…the substitutionary atonement on the cross and the need of the Holy Spirit to indwell them was the gift He left for all who will trust in His name for salvation.

    If it were a matter of Him “zapping” them into belief before the cross, then there would have been no need for the atonement. He had a work to do and He came to do it. Without that sacrifice, it would not matter what we believed, it wouldn’t be complete.

    When we believe in Him, we believe He is all He said He was in the flesh (God) –that He and the Father are One (as He taught) — that His death paid for our sins (as the OT foretold) — that we would be given His Spirit after He ascended to His Father as the indwelling Spirit of God (the teaching in chapter 14 of the Helper to come).

    You know, Love, the Apostles Creed:

    I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
    the Creator of heaven and earth,
    and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

    Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
    born of the Virgin Mary,
    suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, died, and was buried.

    He descended into hell.

    The third day He arose again from the dead.

    He ascended into heaven
    and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
    whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

    I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic (universal) church,
    the communion of saints,
    the forgiveness of sins,
    the resurrection of the body,
    and life everlasting.

    Amen.

    Isn’t that the basics of belief?

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  9. love,

    “I do not doubt for one second that we have Spirit within and that Spirit is OF God, but it is not ‘Him’”

    That sounds like a blanket denial of the the Holy Spirit’s indwelling of believers. Scripture teaches otherwise, as Michelle and others pointed out.

    Could you be more specific about what you believe concerning the Holy Spirit and believers – and about the ‘spirit’ you say that is OF god but NOT God?

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  10. Welcome B4B!

    Certainly, but if you read what i wrote as a blanket denial of the Holy Spirit dwelling in those who truly believe then you seriously misread what i wrote and the underlying intent.

    If you read that line in the context of the two para’s above it and the following one then i hope my intent/belief becomes clear(er)

    Since God is infinite and we are not, it is simply impossible to have (the entirety) of God within ‘us’ at any time. To think we can is making God into something ‘less’ than ourselves’ (which i feel many people ultimately do). We are IN Him, not the other way around.

    That line was intended to alert some who might think otherwise; that we err if we feel like we ever know everything about God and have (all) of Him in us that we ‘need’, that it is us who are in Him – and not vice vera.

    We all have a spirit – that, i hope, we are in agreement upon – and that spirit is of the same ‘quantatative’ quality (same stuff) as God is. It must be of necessity considerably less than the total of Him though. Is that fair of me to say?

    I believe we are all born both with, and into, spirit (with = our spiritual ‘being’ and into – the universe of Spirit which is some of God’s ‘personal’ domain wherein we spend our earthly and eternal lives) however as tiny children we begin to develop a STRONG attachment to our body’s ‘earthly’/fleshy needs and pay little to no attention to our spirit. many people then continue their entire lives without ever ‘finding’ their connection to that spirit in any real, disciplined, conscious way. To some effect they ‘lose’ their spirit – they never have a conscious ability to connect with it in their everyday waking life.

    I believe that the Holy Spirit entering the Body (Grace?) as per the Scripture(s) i imagine you are referring to in your question is when our spirit is brought into ‘direct’ contact with His and a lasting link then forms between our spirit and our conscious awareness, such that we are able – for some period at least -to ‘walk in spirit’ and not let the flesh completely have it’s will over us.
    (Until we can learn to walk in spirit (following the spirit and not the ways of the flesh) every second of every day our flesh will have ‘some’ say in how we live here on Earth).

    This is not to imply that it is ‘us’ who brings this upon our being, nor is it intended to deny the possibility that we could all learn to walk in spirit without the ‘intervention’ of the Holy Ghost as a ‘catalyst’ should we ever manage to see the connection between what He has placed within us all (and we have turned, and continue often to turn, our ‘face’ from) and God, the Father.

    Are we, or are we not, His Children – as was Jesus, the man? Do all children know who their real biologic fathers are? How few of us today know God as anything other than a ‘figure’ in a book?

    How many of us can say we walk only in line with His Will as did Jesus?

    Should i have added ‘all of’, or ‘everything we ever need know of’ before ‘Him’ in the line you quoted, in order that it not confuse?

    i thank you for being concerned enough to ask the question!

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