Heresy

We can think or we can feel, we rarely do both at once – Head/Heart divergence.

divergence :

noun
1.  the act of moving away in different direction from a common point; “an angle is formed by the divergence of two straight lines” 
2.  a variation that deviates from the standard or norm; “the deviation from the mean” [syn: deviation] 
3.  an infinite series that has no limit [ant: convergence] 
4.  a difference between conflicting facts or claims or opinions; “a growing divergence of opinion” [syn: discrepancy]

Ok Here’s the thing – i think differently to the way many others do.

Many try to (or are not even aware that they) think only with their minds – or mainly while ‘residing their awareness’ (as opposed to ‘consciousness’ – if you don’t get the diference please ask) primarily or solely in the mind – mental ‘condition’.

This can have some use when you wish to think logically and with ‘structurally sound’ methodologies – providing of course that no errors ‘sneak’ in without you being ‘aware’ of it. (‘conscious’ could sort of fit there too – in that sense there is similitude).

Such thinking can however only get you ‘so far’ and then you may hit a dead end and may need to retrace some steps and try something ‘new’ – a different ‘pathway’ to arrive at useful perspectives that you may, while being ‘locked into the mind’, not be capable of ‘seeing/feeling’.

There is more than one way to Truth – much more.

Science now shows conclusively that the Heart has neurons – just like those in the brain – and that indeed they form a neural web with the brain. Science has yet to establish that there are any similar webs with other bodily ‘organs’ but i for one am going to take a leap of faith and suggest that the ancients were not a million miles shy of the mark when they said that we have ‘gut’ feelings, and our stomachs also have a connection with our brians and and hearts and vice versa.

It is no accident in my mind that we can ‘digest’ someone’s thoughts or words. Or that we can ‘consume’ knowledge.

The human body is an intricate interconnection of individual yet interconnected sytems (at least seven separate ones ).

Namely:

Circulation System – blood vessels – Heart.
Nervous system, nerves, Brain ( heart) transmit external stimuli through main control ‘centre’
Digestive system, mouth, gut, anus (former and latter are sometimes ‘interchangeable’ i.e. many can talk out of their arse in more ways than one.).
Musculo-skeletal system – muscles and bones – structure and motion!
Respiratory system – mouth lungs ( heart) Breathe!
Endocrine system – various internal smaller organs, under primary control of brain and selves ( heart) are responsible/governed by to a large degree emotional response.
Lymphatic/Urinary systems – lymph nodes/glands, Kidneys, bladder. waste disposal.

And there is also the little matter of the Reproductive system which is the only one of these sytems that is ‘unique’ to the male and to the female of our species.

There are some ‘separate’ subsystems as well but those 8 pretty much cover all human capabilities, i believe.

So where could God fit into these systems so that we ‘experience’ Him? Hmmmmm…

All that earth-based systemology – where’s the God Gland/system?

He is in the ‘whole’? I don’t believe so – we are the whole ‘here’ – not God.

So Where?

Or is God simply a human, Earth-based construction after all?

He is invisible – has no ‘existance’ within us?

Does not require corporeal form?

So what was Jesus all about?

Is it enough to simply use one or more of those above systems to find our way back to God???

I don’t believe it is.

Many seem to.

Many are going to be sadly disappointed if Judgement Day comes anytime ‘soon’.

So how could we possibly use anything ‘else’ to connect fully and perfectly with God so as to walk ‘with’ Him without fault or blemish as the Bible says Enoch did?

Some ‘external’ ‘force’? The Holy Ghost?

God? God can work miracles we are told.

So if that is all it takes He could simply place the Holy Ghost inside each of us and We are all saved.

Or, to fit with those who teach that we must ‘choose’ God to be with Him, once we ask for Him to grant us the Holy Spirit then we are ‘done’.

Or perhaps we have to live a life full of good works as well as asking in order to be ‘saved’?

Again, I don’t believe so.

I think we have to do MORE than any of these.

I think to be with God again we have to do ‘more’. Be ‘more’. Know ‘more’ – GROW ‘more’ than any of this.

We need to fully understand our ‘limitations’ before we can begin to overcome them so as to be like unto God.

There IS a way to God – if you believe the Word of The Bible and of Jesus Christ.

I believe that if you understand Fully then you can work towards a Worthy Goal.

Heretically, I believe that just knowing Jesus Christ is not a guarantee of Salvation and that those who ‘knew’ Him by another ‘name’ are not guaranteed to be excluded from God.

And now that i have given just about everyone cause to think me crazed/unhinged i will end this post…. for now.

And wait the storm clouds and see who thinks and who feels, what.

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20 thoughts on “Heresy

  1. Hey Love!

    I read the post – I’m gonna go dig in the Word and then i’ll get back to ya!

    Hope you had a great weekend!

    Ours was fantabulous! The Ducks Won!!!

    Are you all set on a Title yet?

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  2. It’s Quiet… Too Darned Quiet! 🙂

    Must be a Sunday in some part of this planet?

    Hey Tam – How about those Ducks Huh?

    Weekend was BLISS! and today the weather is even better (getting into our 30’s and your 90’s now! Still cool enough in th eearly mornings and not cool enough to feel ‘cold’ ( or lonely 😉 )

    Hurry Back 🙂

    GiGi’s the writer – I told her my position on the title and left some last suggestions for now.. see ‘Music Maestro’.

    Morning Debs – hope things are brighter for you over your way today? 🙂 Take it easy if they are not!

    We all Love you !

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  3. Morning Love….I FEEL the love…really I do. Things are up and down…kind of a strange place to be…alot of mind wandering, but God is so faithful to place people and projects and friends across the ocean to help you through…I love Him so….

    Hey, I came up with a song…it’s kind of a play on an old nursery rhyme but I think it would work as an opening number for Tam and I. It goes like this….

    Do you know the mullet man, the mullet man, the mullet man…do you know the mullet man, who lives down the lane….

    Whatcha think???? tee hee

    Ok, a theme..I would LOVE to see Australia some day…so I think we’ll keep it out of doors…I need to do some research on geography around there….for accuracy purposes…here I go…love ya Love! Oh, I need to read your latest entry….it may take a bit, but here I go…cyber hugs!

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  4. The post all but has my name on it. In any case:

    Many are going to be sadly disappointed if Judgement Day comes anytime ’soon’.

    If something along these lines comes, I’ll start with ‘Hello.’

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  5. Believe it or not….

    Ben – you were the furthest thing from my mind when i wrote this. Starting at the beginning when the end is here has a certain ‘ballsyness’ about it and i can assure you – you are not alone.

    You read it like i was writing it to you… hmmm?… interesting!
    Wrong, from my perspective as author – but still interesting to me. 🙂

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  6. As a philosophy for living I can’t fault it. Personal growth to the improvement of the person and the betterment of all. Bravo.

    Regardless of the question to the existence of a supreme being this is a good way to live. If only we had more heretics in the world.

    Of course, you don’t need God to grow as a person and live a good life.

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  7. This is beautifully disjointed and tangental. But I really don’t know where it is going.

    Let me just look at one part:

    “So if that is all it takes He could simply place the Holy Ghost inside each of us and We are all saved.”

    There is an issue of Justice. If God just saves everybody, then our sense of outrage at injustice is misplaced and selfish.. Think of the worst thing you have ever heard of. There must not be anything really wrong with it because, God just “forgives” in a big God void.

    My challenge is a statement like this occurs without any baseline regarding why to think it, only that it fits into what has come previously, which, you’ve got to admit, also has no baseline.

    There are plenty of people who disagree with a biblical baseline, but the worst thing you have ever heard of has the same baseline as the above statement.

    What lies between one’s ears. I don’t know about you but what is between my ears hasn’t done me a lot of good and a look in the paper should help to confirm that, I think.

    Ohh there I go thinking again…

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  8. @Jason, that would be me. I just don’t see the need for any god. If you’re talking about checks and balances on immoral behaviour then we have laws. If you’re talking about ethical behaviour then we have (or should have) societal disapproval. If you’re talking about moral thinking then I’m afraid you just have the balances of nature and nurture to keep you on track.

    I don’t have a problem with “being good” without god. As a species we should try to limit those who “do evil” but why should god ever come into it? Is it simply the idea of a “higher authority” who can dictate a baseline?

    I’ve overused by quote quota for the day now.

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  9. Thanks, superfrog.

    I would agree that a person doesn’t have to believe in God to behave in a way that Idefine good, in fact, no secret, quite often they are much more well behaved than those who chose to, rightly or wrongly, define themselves as Christians.

    All of that to say that it is only our own definitions which dictate these boundaries. If we lived under Montezuma, or were in the court of a Borja Pope, or whatever, we are just doing what our head and our circumstances says is OK. They would not be good in our definition, but nothing makes them not good if the only definition is between our ears.

    Oh, I’m sure you’ve heard all this before.

    Thanks for the reply, and your considerable patience with us bible thumpers in the process. You and Mr. Gator do credit to your…uuu…category. And I’ll check on the quote quota, there’ve been a lot of changes in the law.

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  10. I had a recent debate with a person of faith on the subjects of homosexuality and incest. He claimed that homosexuals were sinners based on several passages from the old Testament. When pressed be sighted incest as a comparable “sin”.

    My argument was that any act between consenting adults is there business and none of mine and as long as it remained so could not be considered wrong under a modern society.

    I also cited the practices of ancient Egyptian and of Hawaiian royalty of keeping the ruling line pure by marrying siblings. To there society of the time it was not only considered acceptable for incest to take place but was expected. There is little biological reason to to allow incest either. Contrary to popular belief it does not automatically cause retarded mutants to spring forth to devour the parents.

    Now I’m not keep on the idea of engaging in homosexual or incestuous acts. It really isn’t my cup of tea. The point was that society sets the rules to how we limit our behaviour. we learn what are acceptable acts and what are unacceptable.

    Some rules that you would have been punished for 2000 years ago are seen today as just silly…unless you ensure that your beard is properly uncut around the edges and you wear clothes of only one fibre. These are examples of rules laid down in the Old Testament and carried forward to the New Testament but not adhered to.

    If you were to stick to a strict interpretation of biblical instruction then you’d be looked on as a violent, misogynistic racist in your padded cell.

    I’m saying that the bible has some grand ideas on good behaviour but we must necessarily view them through the eyes of our society. We must interpret them through our own experiences and work to improve ourselves and society as best we can. Taken as a whole the foundations of society may have been Christian (or Muslim, or Buddhist, whatever) but that view is no longer required to live a moral life.

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  11. I am not attacking you here. Don’t see the question marks as though they also have exclamation marks. We are just sitting in a coffee shop and I am calmly challenging you and you are doing so in return.

    “consenting adults” – why is this a prerequsite

    “as long as it remained so” – and the perception of an independent virtue only changes when people change it. The way I see it, “It” doesn’t remain anywhere, people decide what was wrong is now not wrong. And there is no good reason to put any more parameters on it than that. Our feelings on the matter societal or otherwise, bind these parameters to nothing.

    “modern” – according to China? Sudan? The Netherlands? Would you consider anything that they do to be wrong within their modern context? Is that as ethnocentric as it seems?

    “I also cited the practices of ancient Egyptian and of Hawaiian royalty of keeping the ruling line pure by marrying siblings.” – they did other things which are in profound opposition to the parameters in your first paragraph. How is it that we are societally bound to some and not others?

    “The point was that society sets the rules to how we limit our behaviour.” – firstly, how is this determined and, secondly, when were we stripped of our responsibility as members of society. We are not outside of it, while it does something to us, we are in it, doing it, shaping it, and based on our own existential desires, views, predelictions, and motivations – none of which bind my own personal existential desires, views, predelictions, and motivations in any way.

    “If you were to stick to a strict interpretation of biblical instruction then you’d be looked on as a violent, misogynistic racist in your padded cell.” – I am certain that, if looked at in the context of what is said and approched systematically, this statement is utterly indefensible, there is quite a bit there, but, firstly and very illustratively, that is my view on it, and why are you not bound to my view on it? But even more importantly than this, secondly, I would ask, who would view me that way and why should I care? Is there any reason to think that the person who would see me this way is any more right than me?

    Some rules that you would have been punished for 2000 years ago are seen today as just silly…unless you ensure that your beard is properly uncut around the edges and you wear clothes of only one fibre. These are examples of rules laid down in the Old Testament and carried forward to the New Testament but not adhered to.” – And? If the law of the land tomorrow became Chassidic Judaism, what is wrong with that?

    “necessarily view them through the eyes of our society” – why another parameter? What is the virtue in it even if it is a relative virtue?

    “and work to improve ourselves and society as best we can.” – another parameter. I honestly don’t know why I should feel that this is worthwhile based on you saying it.

    I know that my style seems confrontive, but I just want to highlight that, though you and I undoubtably run morally parallel on nearly all issues, there is no reason that anyone should feel the same way as you and/or I. If someone in our society does something we would consider utterly horrible, it cannot be “wrong” in your view. It is only illegal, which is often incommensurate with “wrong”.

    I am closed minded in this matter. But I contend everyone else is as well, and not just in behavioral details, but in big things, places where we draw the line.

    Here is how I see it, to lay my cards on the table for you to shred as you see fit. I think certain things but I try to bind to a broad, systematic view of God’s word, quite in opposition to all of my life a while back and much of my life now. You think certain things but they are only bound to the constant, tidal flow of the fickle public.

    What do you think? How off am I?

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  12. Not off at all. I find myself agreeing with you. However I was raised in the western world in the late 20th century and I owe my viewpoint to that culture. As much as it might be easier to view the world in the black and white of absolutes that the bible offers I’m too inclined to see grey areas in everything. I’d like to think that living life by the so called golden rule of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you would be enough for anyone. Sadly I’m too much a realist to expect that.

    I dislike absolutes as much as I dislike being dictated to.

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  13. “Sadly I’m too much a realist to expect that.”

    I, of course, would say that this is your own wisdom recognizing fallenness, and I, believe it or not, would agree with much of what you said.

    Perhaps we’ll talke about it someday.

    Thanks, Mr. Frog

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  14. Great postings and polite discussion in ‘The Coffee Shop’? – where did i hear that recently?? Hmmm – Any Clues In Worship? Are you still breathing? 🙂

    Sorry to say i cannot agree with either ‘position’ anlthough both are clearly worthy of your own perspectives and seem reasonably internally consistent and able to withsatand a little ‘inspection’ 🙂
    I do however confess to adopting one more in line with Jason than Mr Frog for reasons which remain clear to me…. and which i am doing something to ‘explain.. I hope while not demanding everyone believe as I do… or say.

    I DO believe we ALL believe… in Something at some level. 🙂

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  15. Thank you for your kind words Mr Frog – you may wish to see my initial post on philosphy – wisdom?
    The one that opened my blog here.

    J – can’t see where it is going? well probably to be brutally honest i can’t see exactly where it will end up myself yet but the IDEA is to get us all ‘thinking a little more outside our boxes’!

    Hardly a bad goal – would you say? 🙂

    See the starting point in this post? Divergence?

    Heart and Mind?

    I try thinking with both simultaneously – for a start, then progress Upwards from their was where i was ‘heading’ ‘in the beginning….’ 🙂

    Peace all.

    Do drop by for coffee anytime 🙂 All welcome.

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